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Bret

I thought the latest luddite like complaints were that we were starting to export service jobs (call centers and software development in India, etc.), no? Worrying about exporting manufacturing jobs is just so last century. :-)

But the chart surprised me a little. That's because I was recently reading an article by Alan Reynolds at Cato (http://www.cato.org/research/articles/reynolds-030831.html) where he quoted various economists saying the US manufacturing had actually been pretty stable as a fraction of GDP for a long time. For example, "manufacturing's share of the U.S. economy, as measured by real GDP, has been stable since the late 1940s..."

I'll have to admit that the IMF's chart makes more intuitive sense though. It doesn't seem like the growth in the service sector could have come completely from agriculture.

spencer

Manufactures share of gdp has been constant but because productivity in manufacturing is so strong manufacturing employment has fallen.

Output and employment are two different things.

Bob

Until Google starts generating revenue from something other than advertisements, I will hold out any judgement as to whether or not they are actually adding value overall. Granted, the good people in the part of Oregon are seeing a benefit...and that's wondderful for them. But right now Google is nothing more than an online billboard in terms of their business model.

We've been down this road before with the promise of valhalla and information technology. BTW, Steve
I'm surprised that you haven't looked at M2M, something I am very familar with that has all the trappings of another dotcom bust.

I can't argue that we've moved away from infastructure as a driver of the economy. Nevertheless, I will continue to empahsize that unless and until this country develops a framebreaking innnovation that contributes to both our national wealth AND replaces dependence on natural resources vital to our well being, I will remain a pessimist.

I don't like being beholden to anyone for survival. Especially a cartel of tribal barbarians.

Nice note in Gilder's article about building the next server farm in China. Good for China's GDP - not so good for ours.

Bret

In my business, the free, instantaneous searches of huge amounts of information performed by Google adds tremendous value. Whether or not Google makes a profit, they create value and wealth for others.

Richard Edward Noble

1)From what I have read unemployment statistics are notoriously understated and mis- represented.
2)"Can a great nation provide for its needs by shining each others shoes," asked Geroge Meany. That is a good question and like it or not it looks like we are going to find out.
3)Manufacturing was once 80% of our economy - it is now 20%
4)Service jobs on the whole pay traditionally less with fewer or no benefits than manufacturing.
4) no manufacturing makes providing for the national defence eventually impossible.
5)I last read that even the fast food businesses are now off-shoring to-go duties.
5) Wake up a smell the roses - you people are kidding yourselves.

Syphax

"1)From what I have read unemployment statistics are notoriously understated and mis- represented."

This is true... but this doesn't mean much. Unemployment statistics were always overstated, so even if it is "understated" 4.4 is still historically strong and shows that the labor market is strong, not weak.

You talk about the service sector as if all it includes is the people who flip burgers... The service sector includes teachers, lawyers, doctors, pilots, computer programmers, engineers, musicians, writers, reporters etc. etc. Not that manufacturing jobs are lousy or anything... but personally when you want your kid to grow up would you rather he be one of those... or would you rather he work in a factory? Nothing against blue collar workers, but honestly white collar jobs are generally easier, higher paying(I don't know where you got the idea manufacturing jobs pay better than service sector but thats NOT true) and overall better than blue collar ones.

"5)I last read that even the fast food businesses are now off-shoring to-go duties."

The US is expected to lose 10 million jobs to China from 2000 to 2010. Sounds scary... but only if you don't know the facts. 10 million jobs over a decade is a drop in the ocean as far as the US job market goes. We may lose 200 million jobs in a decade but if we gain 230 million we are still creating jobs overall. And finally, companies that outsource actually create more jobs than companies that don't. Think about it, they save so much money overseas, they can afford to expand their business and hire more people here. And lets not forget about all the poor countries we are helping by outsourcing.

Jon Thompson

It is not that we are moving to a day when we manufacture nothing, but, just as with agriculture, a day when one percent of the population is all that is required in the manufacturing field to create the material goods of our society. Also, remember that all services help manufacturing in some way, and many in very direct ways. It is not a one or the other situation.

Bob

And finally, companies that outsource actually create more jobs than companies that don't. Think about it, they save so much money overseas, they can afford to expand their business and hire more people here.

------------------------------------
That's a hypothesis though I don't see any empirical data backing up the statement. It would be true if the unit costs savings resulted in higher margins that were reinvested in the firm. However, if the savings are used for stock buybacks and no increased R&D then
the firms competitive position could be at risk. My "at a glance"
view is that this stock buyback mania, if you will, may temporarily increase share prices but only at the expense of future innovation.

Micheal Porter, the Harvard competitive strategy guru has recently "come out of the closest" cautioning firms to stop managing the stock price and focus on their competitive differentiation/value proposition.

My take is that his caution is, in a way, similar to what Steve is attempting to convey here. Our government needs to fret less about the debt and concentrate more on how we can leverage our extraordinary borrowing power to improve both our national security
and develop a competitve advantage
to increase our wealth (as measured in GDP for now) as a nation.

Alternative transportation fuel can do both.

Syphax

"That's a hypothesis though I don't see any empirical data backing up the statement."

A study by the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth concluded that companies that outsource generally hire twice as many workers at home as they do overseas.

http://mba.tuck.dartmouth.edu/pages/faculty/matthew
.slaughter/MNE%20Outsourcing%200304.pdf

Aaron

I live in Taiwan and work in China a lot.

Industrial jobs do have a few social benefits like keeping large numbers of people with low education levels busy. They also tend over time to suck their supporting service sector jobs over to this side of the Pacific. Now I am seeing large US retailers that have very few Americans actually doing the purchasing, QC, design, etc. They instead have offices in China to do that. It's a bit worrying, but probably natural. The internet is speeding this process up.

That said, factory jobs that we in the USA are losing usually mind numbingly boring and low paying (especially if they have to compete with China.) Operating a press is boring, dirty, and dangerous.

Not only that, industry really is polluting. Visit Shenzhen and then visit the USA or even Taiwan now that we are also losing factory jobs. Quality of life is much better in the non-industrial areas.

Also, for all those critics who think that factory jobs are so great...the kids in Taiwan would rather work at McDonalds or a coffee shop than in a factory...hmmmmmmm.

R

nice chart, although I think their use of the term industry is misleading

the most ridiculous recent episode in the "they took r jobs!!" saga was Ford and GM complaining to Bush that currency manipulation was the reason their businesses have failed. expect a bail-out, which is a huge waste for USA and the world, early next year. tax hikes are coming too. Bush isn't satisfied with being hated by the left, apparently. now he wants the right to hate him too!


one other comment in reply to the above post:
"Until Google starts generating revenue from something other than advertisements, I will hold out any judgement as to whether or not they are actually adding value overall. Granted, the good people in the part of Oregon are seeing a benefit...and that's wondderful for them. But right now Google is nothing more than an online billboard in terms of their business model."


you must be joking. i'm no fan of Google, but their search engine does happen to be the most effective way yet devised to sort through the enormous volume of information on the internet. not only do they provide massive value to customers who use their search engine, they also provide cost-effective, easily-quantified, and highly-targetted advertising to every company on Earth. if you want to criticize their horrible business decisions or their Big-Brother-like stranglehold on information go for it, but don't pretend that they don't add value.

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